A GROUP DISCUSSION, QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS

I have heard different opinion from young adults on WHEN MARRIAGE can be said to have taken place and couples are free to make love and separation or divorce can be said to be too late.

1. Once there is love making even though wedding has not taken place.

2. Once parents from both sides have been informed.

3. Once what we called ENGAGEMENT has taken place.

4. After TRADITIONAL WEDDING have been conducted even if church blessings or court wedding has not been done.

5. Only after CHURCH wedding or joining in a REGISTRY according to the law of the land has taken place.

Discourse:

At which of the above can we say in the eye of God, according to the Bible, marriage has taken place?

– Group Admin, 3pG.

(PLEASE SEE THE MINISTRY TELEGRAM AND FACEBOOK GROUP PAGES FOR SOME OF MEMBERS PRIOR CONRIBUTIONS TO THE DISCUSSION).

GROUP ADMIN RESPONSE:

To start with, there was no church wedding in the Bible, not even a single one. Even in the old Jewish Temple, no recorded wedding was done inside of it. All Bible marriages took place in TRADITIONAL CEREMONIES between parents. They were written for our examples.  Does that mean there were no wedding in the early church? No, wedding took place but not in the church. Church wedding was a later addition to the Christian life as a way of helping couples to escape idolatrous/pagan traditions that goes with weddings in the communities and towns where the gospel have come and to checkmate immoral sexual behavior among believers.

In all the listed points in out discourse, the most important of them all is TRADITIONAL wedding. This is where exchange of gifts between parents’ takes place and dowry are paid. In all of the weddings in the Bible, they were all ceremonies that are done by parents in honour of the wedding couples and at which both sides exchange gifts and vows and dowries are paid (Genesis 24:53-67).

Today we call that TRADITIONAL wedding. Once done marriage has taken place with or without church blessings or court date etc.

Only at this point in the eye of God is sex permitted between the two lovers. They are married. Examples of Isaac and Rebecca and Joseph and Mary in the Bible illustrate this point to the fullest. Once traditional wedding has taken place, gifts has been exchanged and dowry paid. The two are married. No separation or divorce is allowed by God once this barrier is passed.

Now, some couples may still continue to practice NO SEX at this point because they are waiting for church wedding. Yes, if your church insist you are not to have sex before the church wedding, couple should obey the rule but it’s the church rule, not the Bible and it’s alright to obey your church but that doesn’t mean both are not married.

Church wedding with no traditional wedding?!…hmmm, in the eye of God, MARRIAGE had not taken place. That’s why no church will want to wed any couple when traditional wedding has not taken place. These may happen in the western world but that does not mean it is biblical.

Marrying a lady without a prior release from an authority figure, a man to be precise, her father or uncle etc is no wedding. That’s why in church they always begin with who gave out this lady in marriage? And until a male figure gives her out, no Pastor will join them in a Bible believing church.

The most important part of MARRIAGE is parental consent and payment of dowry, not one without the other. And this takes place mostly during TRADITIONAL wedding.

Sex before exchange of gifts and dowry is wrong but sex after this is perfect. Marriage has taken place.

Churches have downplayed the roles of traditional ceremonies of exchange of gifts and instead insist the church ceremony of wedding is the most important, this is far from the tenet of the Scripture. Church wedding is secondary to families’ exchange of gifts and dowry.

There has been couples who went their different ways and marry someone else even after traditional wedding and exchange of gifts and dowry, just because they have not been joined by a church.  Yet, that a church has not joined two people did not mean God has not joined them and that a church joined them do not mean God was there.

Separation or divorce after traditional parents’ exchange of gifts and dowry is NOT the mind of God. That was exactly what happened between Mary and Joseph, who plotted to PUT HER AWAY,  that is divorce her secretly having married her in a secret family affair and only waiting for the public ceremony.

The point at which biblical marriage takes place is at the EXCHANGE OF GIFTS AND DOWRY IS PAID. Any other thing afterward is for public ceremony and recognition, including church or registry wedding ceremonies. And none of those outward appearances outweigh the exchange of gifts and dowry in the eye of God.

– Group Admin, 3pG.

PLEASE NOTE:

There are times church wedding takes place before traditional wedding….hmmmm….. As long as its the agreement of the parents and exchange of gifts and dowry takes place immediately, all is still good.

But church alone with no parental consent and payment of dowry is NO MARRIAGE and exchange of gifts and payment of dowry alone with no church wedding is CORRECT MARRIAGE. Church marriage is only recognize in heaven ONLY if parents consented and dowry paid.

The most important role of church, especially men of God in all these is the blessings but the blessings is not the marriage. Please this understanding did not underplay the importance of church blessings and solemnization of weddings, it only emphasize the importance of dowry and exchange of gifts between parents and that young men and women should be careful and not rush to pay dowry because once done MARRIAGE has taken place before God even when a church or Pastor has not solemnize or bless the union.

(Questions and clarifications on this are welcome if any of this is not clear yet).

THE FOLLOWING ARE SOME OF THE CONTRIBUTIONS THAT WERE IN RESPONSE TO THE GROUP ADMIN POSITIONS AND HIS RESPONSES TO EACH OF THEM:

CONTRIBUTION 1.

Hmmm, thank you sir for this enlightenment. I’m just wondering how a youth or a teenager will understand this teaching.  It may be misinterpreted. I think it’s better to stay with the knowledge that Church Wedding is the best for a Christian. When I was in school, our NIFES prayer secretary got married and gave birth 5months after wedding.

The Fellowship president and executives visited her and asked how come? What happened? She said she did her traditional wedding 4months before we all came for the church wedding and they were already being intimate. The executives could not place her point or excuse, she was eventually excommunicated from the fellowship. She was holding a very vital post, she didn’t think of what people would say or how it would affect the fellowship and school at large. She kept insisting she was not wrong, most of us were disappointed and ashamed of her action and even standing by it. Now I know better, but sir, how would a known worker in the church do a traditional wedding and say that’s all that matters? I feel we should stick to the knowledge of having a church wedding as the completion of marriage ceremonies as Christians sir. The coming generation will sure misinterpret this and use it as an excuse to do and undo… Thank you sir. (Mrs. Adeoye R.)

ADMIN RESPONSE:

I quite understand your position, I earlier said it’s alright to abide with church or fellowship rules but the Bible is our best guide.

Under the circumstances you mentioned, the couple did not obeyed the fellowship rules and were disciplined but in the real sense, they actually did nothing wrong. They were married. They may have wronged the fellowship as a body but making love as a couple after their traditional wedding was never wrong as well.  It’s understanding of those involved. And that says a lot about how much we have exalted church/fellowship rules and regulations and underplay Bible positions on things.

It is not only in your school fellowship, I mentioned cases, where churches allowed couples to go their different ways just because they haven’t done church weddings, despite the fact that dowry has been paid. There are women on whose behalf dowry has been paid more than once but ended up with the man who took them to the Church altar, thinking they were never married because the first one did not end up in church wedding. Cases like that reminds me of the Woman at the well, Jesus says, despite having married to 5 men, yet the one she’s with now is not her husband. The man who paid the first dowry is the real husband!

I understand your advice to just keep encouraging the young ones to see church wedding as the final thing…. That’s true but the position of the Bible CANNOT changed even if we do. Church wedding is good, I did same too but the Bible marriage actually took place at the point of exchange of gifts and payment of dowry. Marrying another after dowry has been paid by someone else, calls for second thought.

Church rules must be obeyed, where you cannot, please pull out but we must not put church rules ahead of the plain Bible teachings, especially when there is conflict in the intent of the rules. For example, Nigeria as a country had a constitution and several organizations and government agencies has rules, regulations and by laws, whenever any of these have a conflict with the Constitution, the Constitution is given the final say above other laws.

Same, churches, fellowships and Christian Ministries and groups like ours have rules and regulations but whenever any of these conflict with the Bible, the Bible which is our Constitution MUST HAVE THE FINAL SAY.

I hope this helps.

CONTRIBUTION 2:

Thank you for your emphasis on the Bible position concerning marriage. My question is why do some brides’ parents return the dowry to the groom parents these days in the guise of not selling their daughter. I have always told those involved that exchange of gifts and payment of dowry are significant in traditional wedding and also Biblical. I suggest you take this topic in radio broadcast one of these days and in marriage seminars too. (Mrs. Ogunmekan C.O)

ADMIN RESPONSE:

Hmmm…. Thanks so much ma. Many don’t understand Bible principles, returning the bride price all in the name of not selling the daughter is another error. One can only wonder why it’s so difficult for many women, especially those in those category to submit to their husbands.

Payment of dowry is Biblical. We can only hope the gifts that were exchange that day speak for such marriages. Dowry is the legal exchange that take the father’s right over the daughter to the husband, where it is missing, and many men are victim of these…we can only hope somewhere, somehow, the spiritual right of exchange did took place, if not the man’s spiritual cover over his wife can be called to question by the accuser from time to time but the easy way out… If that’s sufficient is to hope the exchange and handing over in the church by the father or the male figure on the wedding day in church is enough… And the woman too must consciously confess her loyalty and submission to her head from time to time, especially if her dowry was returned, otherwise her struggle to submit, love and obey her husband may never end. It’s a spiritual principle, no one can subvert it.

We do ourselves much harm than we know when we push Bible position aside over our own self-made rules.

Please we must understand these things, legal right over a woman from the father to the husband took place at the point of dowry payment… It must be at a price, no matter small. It shouldn’t be free. If that exchange is incomplete… Hmmmm.

Even Jesus did not take the Church as His wife for free, it was at a Price.

CONTRIBUTION 3:

Court marriage is binding whether with parental consent or not. But the male must carefully study the prevailing marriage law of the land. Nowadays in many places, it’s designed for the woman to be the head of such marriages or for the marriage to break easily in the nearest future. Most times, the success of such court marriages is dependent on the level of sanity of the woman no matter how level headed the husband may be (Mr Olubanji A.)

ADMIN RESPONSE:

I sure agree that court marriages are binding whether with parental consent or not in the eye of the law, especially when those involved are of age but we are here talking about home where the Bible is considered the final authority on all matters affecting the home and in such places, parental consent and payment of dowry cannot be subverted.

The father of the bride loses his right and authority over the daughter, and transferred same to the husband at the point of consent and payment of dowry. Until these happens biblical marriage cannot be said to have taken place. It’s an important prerequisite for biblical marriage.